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Post Number:#1  PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:11 pm
  

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This project plan is an attempt to cover all those things that should be done when you dive into the timing belt replacement on a new-2-U bike.

In this project, you will:

  • Drain Oil and Coolant
  • Remove Seat
  • Remove Shelter
  • Remove Radiator
  • Test/Replace Water Pump
  • Replace Neutral Switch ('82-'83 only)
  • Test/Replace Radiator Fan Motor
  • Test/Replace Fan and Temp Switches
  • Replace Thermostat
  • Replace Radiator Hoses and Cap
  • Evaluate/Replace Head Gaskets
  • Replace Timing Belts

I did two go-rounds of the "Remove Radiator, etc." cycle, and it occurred to me that this experience might benefit others. If you've "been-there, done-that" then please review this and help to make it a complete list. The input of the more experienced and august members of this board could be invaluable to our new members. Please contribute your helpful hints, links to tutorials and advice.

Front Engine Renewal Project

    Front always refers to the FRONT of the bike.
    Left and Right as if you are sitting on the bike.

First, a little tour via some Honda schematics. When ordering parts or asking for help you should refer to parts by number and name. The names and numbers in this writeup refer to these drawings. Before taking on a fix I like to look up these drawings at BikeBandit.com to familiarize myself with the terrain. Other sources for the same drawings are Western Honda and ServiceHonda.com (they give good phone at 800-828-5498).

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Don't let that one make you nervous. You probably won't have to take all that stuff apart.

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#8 on the left side of the engine gets removed to pull the radiator. Then you can inspect the water pump. If it's good all else on that side stays put.

Remove the Radiator

Put the bike on a solid surface and up on the centerstand. If you run the back wheel up onto a 1' long piece of 2"x8" it will be a lot easier to pop it up on that stand.

Organize. Have small containers ready for bolts and nuts. Whenever possible, return fasteners to the hole they came out of. That way it's there when you are putting things back together. Keep bolts together for each phase of the disassembly. For example, these all go into cup #1: oil drain bolt; water drain bolt; water pump cap bolts; radiator bolts, cap nuts and washers. The shelter and seat bolts all go into cup #2.

Drain the oil by removing the bolt under the filter with your 17mm wrench. Just loosen the bolt in the center of the filter housing and let it drain. Remove the filter housing, discard the filter and stash the housing someplace safe. Take a look at the drawing again and make sure you didn't discard the spring, #4 washer or anything else. Drain the water by removing the bolt (14mm). It will likely spray forcefully so be prepared to catch the fluid. Remove the radiator cap and it will come spraying out of there like a torrent. Please don't just let it run on the ground ... anti-freeze is poisonous.

Image

Please dispose of old fluids properly. It's the least we can do for our furry friends. Auto parts stores will take your fluids or you could make a practically free Mother Earth News Waste Oil Heater and use that oil.

Remove the seat. There are Allen head bolts on the right and left. Bolts, washers, adjuster into cup #2. Then slide it back and lift the front.

Remove the shelter. Two 10mm bolts at the front, one each side on the bottom. Two 12mm bolts at the rear, on top. Cup #2, got the idea? Stand on the right side of the bike and slightly lift the shelter. Then pull up on the left side to twist it off. Keep it parallel with the bike and jiggle a little here and there. It's got a sweet spot that it likes to come off of. You will not need to force it.

Push the handlebars fully to the left.

Remove the radiator cap and overflow tube from the radiator riser.

Remove the left horn. There are two electrical plugs and 2 - 10mm bolts. Store safely (how 'bout next to the oil filter cover?).

Loosen the lower clamp on the upper radiator hose (#7, right under #5 in the radiator drawing), it's 10mm. Get the hose off of its connection to the thermostat housing.

Disconnect the fan's electrical connection. It's way up by the top of the top hose. This may have to wait until you've got the radiator loose.

Get down on the ground on the left side and remove the two bolts (8mm) from the Water Pump Cap (#8 ) and pull the cap away from the water pump cover. Leave the hose connected.

Remove the right-lower bolt (10mm) that holds the radiator to the frame. Bolt and washer into cup #1 (enuf with the organize?). Loosen the left-lower bolt until you can turn it with your fingers but don't remove it.

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Remove the right-upper cap nut and washer. Remove the left-upper cap nut while supporting the radiator with your third hand. If you didn't get the fan connector unclicked, tilt the top of the radiator forward, reach in from the front and get it now.

Image

Support the radiator and remove the lower-left bolt. The radiator is free. Almost. Now it gets tricky. Keep supporting the radiator, get yourself around to the right side of the bike and push the handlebars fully to the right. (NOTE: I put the top-right cap nut back on for this.) You should now be able to finagle the radiator down to free the filler tube from its niche in the frame and then work the radiator free.

Look at all that purty stuff behind there!

Now would be a good time to have the radiator boiled out. Call around to find a shop and get some quotes. You'll need to take everything off of it before delivering it to them. Or, you can try it yourself by flushing scalding hot distilled water through it.

Test/Replace Water Pump

Wiggle and Jiggle the water pump. Move the impeller (just inside #7) around with your fingers. All GL1100s originally came with a Bakelite (plastic) impeller. Replacements will likely have a metal impeller. Reach in the hole and push, pull, wiggle and turn the impeller. It should not turn more than about 1/16". It should not move noticeably either left, right, up or down.
The weep hole on the bottom of the housing should be clear and open. Push a wire up there to check. Have a read through Octane's Water Pump Leak, Why & How for more details.

Image

If your pump is solid and the weep hole is clean, you may now skip ahead to Replace Thermostat.

If the pump moves around and is sloppy it needs to be replaced. Here's where we'll be going.

Image

Some have had success with rebuilding these pumps. But Honda's recommendation (and mine) is to replace it with an OEM pump. It ain't easy to get to and can be replaced for about $125. To rebuild you'd need the two bearing ($20 or so each) and a mechanical seal ($50) so you're almost at the cost of a new pump. Order the pump and a Water Pump Seal Kit. If the pump feels good but the weep hole is full of rusty crud, you should at least pull the transmission cover and disassemble, inspect, clean and replace all the seals.

If you do decide to rebuild the pump, first read Octane's Water Pump Rebuild tutorial.

Remove the water pump transmission cover. Get a piece of cardboard to store the transmission cover bolts. Draw a rough sketch of the trans. housing on it and as you remove a bolt, jab it into its place on the drawing. There are 3 different lengths. You'll thank me later for the cardboard tip (like I thank Octane every time I do it).

Remove the 4 hex head bolts (8mm) from the water pump cover. The two long ones are trans. cover bolts. Get the cover off. Good luck. Do not jam a screwdriver in there to pry it off or you'll ruin the gasket surface. The Haynes manual says to tap lightly with a rubber hammer. Mine required a bit more force and ended up being taken off when I got the transmission cover on the bench.

Remove the 9 hex head bolts (8mm) from around the trans. cover. I had the best luck with my 1/4" drive socket set. Remove the cover. Again, no prying. Tap around with a rubber or leather hammer. Take care to find the 3 dowel pins and note their locations if they fall free.

Remove the three bolts (10mm) that hold the pump in the trans. cover. Discard the 3 crush washers. Lightly tap and press the pump out toward the front.

Have a cold one and have a little chuckle at all those that skipped ahead and don't get this treat!

Clean up all of the parts real good. Remove all traces of the old gaskets and discard all o-rings.

Image

Make real sure that all the water and oil journals/passages are clear.

Image

See, I done a pretty good job. Hey, these parts are hidden and don't need much polish in my book.

Survey your new parts and water pump seal kit with new cover gaskets.

Image

Install the pump using new big o-rings and 3 new aluminum crush washers. Torque the bolts to 6 to 9 ft. lb.

Replace Neutral Switch ('82 and '83)

My '81 does not have this, of course. It's #6 in the transmission cover drawing.

Sagebrush wrote:
IF it's an '82 or newer 1100, replace the neutral switch. You're going to be staring it in the face when you remove the transmission cover to get to the water pump.

Sodbuster wrote:
The neutral switch is unique to '82 and '83 models. The position of the switch is critical.

Notice the position of the pin in the switch in relation to the bolts. Also, the short end of the pin points to the 2 o'clock position. This is important for ease of reassembly of the transmission cover and also to ensure the switch is in the correct position for proper operation.


Image


Replace Water Pump Seals

Clean up the front mating surface on the block. Again, check and clear all water and oil journals and passages.

Remove the old water pump seal and install the new one.

Image

All but one of the o-rings (it's about 1" and is for the '82-'83 neutral switch) in the kit have a home. Make sure that you get them all in and well seated. There's a new one for the water pump cap #8, too. I like to apply a bit of grease to them so they'll stick in place. Put the 3 alignment dowels into their holes and hang the new trans. cover gasket on the front of the engine. Install the trans. cover with its 9 - 8mm bolts. Not too tight, yet.

Image

Put the water pump cover gasket in place over the two dowels on the trans. cover. Install the pump cover using its two short and two (extra) long bolts (all 8mm).

Tighten the 13 - 8mm bolts evenly and in a criss-cross pattern. Round and round gradually until they all snug up evenly. I couldn't get my torque wrench to most of them so I guesstimated on the 6 to 9 ft. lb. of torque.

Replace Thermostat

These can be tested but just pick up a new one and replace it. NAPA gets $7 for theirs. The dribble hole ("jiggle pin") goes up, at the 12 o'clock position. A new o-ring for the cover would be nice, I didn't have one and the old one looks good so it went back in.
    NAPA #101
    STANT #13868
    Carquest #32438
    Honda Auto #19300BP2024
180º type with a 52mm mounting flange and bypass relief port.

Test/Repair/Replace Radiator Fan Motor

Hotwire the leads from your fan motor to the battery. If it snaps right on and runs smoothly then you're good to go. If nothing happens you'll need a replacement or you might try what I did. I disassembled the fan motor and cleaned it up. The brushes were rusted and corroded into their races and weren't contacting the commutator very well. The commutator had a black stripe at the contact point. I freed the brushes and polished up the copper surface of the commutator. Then cleaned all the surfaces using silicone spray, steel wool and elbow grease. A little dielectric grease in the race and it runs like a champ.

Test/Replace Radiator Fan Switch and Temperature Gauge Sender

Image

The fan switch on these Wings is notorious for taking a digger. If yours is wired with a toggle switch for the fan, you need to fix this switch. The instructions in the Haynes manual are about as good as it gets.

Image

Also, read my Fan Thermo Switch thread for more details. For excellent instructions on using a non-OEM switch (meaning, 'cheap'), see AzCycle's Alternative Fan Thermo Switch thread.

Replace Radiator Hoses

Buy one NAPA #7733 radiator hose and cut it to make both the upper and lower replacements. Use the old hoses to select the best segments of the new hose. There's only a little bit of waste so cut carefully

Replace Radiator Cap

Just replace it.

NAPA/Belkamp #703-1445 or STANT #10229.

Evaluate the Head Gaskets

This part is entirely subjective. It's torn down this far and now you have to make a decision. You can't really look at the head gaskets without ruining them. But you do have evidence of how hot the engine has been running and for how long it's been running hot. Evaluate the condition of the radiator hoses, fan and switch, thermostat and the radiator itself.

Do replace the head gaskets if the pump was trashed. If the bike ran hot for too long then it will likely blow a head gasket in the near future. Even if you've fixed the cooling system, those gaskets are tired. It's not much further to go once you have all the above done. And it'll cost you under $100 to finish it up right.

Image

Parts to order from the Cylinder Head and 'Stat drawings:
    2 x Cyl Head Gaskets (#6), 12251-MG9-306, 35.35 ea. = 70.70
    2 x Oil Control Orifice O-rings (#18) (6.5x1.5), 91305-371-003, 1.20 ea. = 2.40
    2 x O-rings for the same orifice (#19) (4.1x1.5), 91308-371-003, 2.39 ea. = 4.78
    2 x Water Joint Gaskets (#7, Thermostat drawing), 19429-371-306, 3.15 ea. = 6.30 *see Note
    4 x Water Joint O-rings (#14, 'Stat) (21.9x2.3), 91301-MB6-003, 1.04 ea. = 4.16
    4 x Exhaust Pipe Crush Gaskets, 18291-286-306, 3.55 ea. = 14.20
    Ground Shipping = 9.00
Total Price = $111.54 *Aug. '08* -- Your parts should arrive within 4 days.

*Note: 8/31/09 Unless you're some kind of purist or have a leak there, don't take off the Water Joints (#6 in the Thermostat drawing) at the top of the heads. Those two little sticky gaskets (#7 in that pic) are expensive and a real pain to get off. Just leave em bolted down. After the head's 7 bolts are out you can work the tubes off at the o-rings.

Other parts to consider when you order are the two rubber Valve Cover Gaskets and 8 seals/washers for the valve cover bolts.

You and the manuals are on your own for this one. It goes exactly as outlined in the Haynes Manual. Download your PDF copy from here. If you don't have a printed Official Honda Manual, Haynes Owners' Workshop Manual or at least a Clymer's by now ... well ... you ought to get one.

Replace Timing Belts

This is the most important reason that you're in here with the radiator off and grease all over yourself. Your horizontally opposed boxer engine is what's known as an interference engine. If a belt breaks, the valves are going to interfere with the movement of the pistons. Something will give. Believe me, it will. And that is usually the valves, if you're lucky. It could also involve broken pistons and other things that are just too horrible to talk about on this family-friendly forum. And you'll probably end up looking for a replacement motor.

Do yourself and the bike the biggest favor and replace the belts now.
Don't pay the high price for Honda or most bike shops for belts.
Most auto stores carry these or can order:
Gates #T274
NAPA #250274
Goodyear Gatorback #40274 (available at AutoZone and others)


Octane's super Timing Belts, Removal and Installation How-To is absolutely the best in the business.

Finishing Up

Put it all back together like it came apart. Do not install the shelter and seat.

Refill the oil. Buy 4 or 5 gallons of Distilled Water, a bottle of Prestone Flush and a gallon of 50/50 Non-Silicate Coolant. Some swear by Honda only coolant but when I was quoted almost $20 for it I started shopping around. Peak 50/50 at Wal-Mart goes for about $8 and is non-silicate.

  1. Pour the flush into the radiator and top it off with distilled water.
  2. Run until hot (fan should come on).
  3. Let it cool down. Drain it.
  4. Fill with distilled water.
  5. Run until hot.
  6. Let it cool down. Drain it.
  7. Repeat 4, 5 & 6 until the water is coming out pure.
  8. Fill with non-silicate 50/50 coolant/distilled water.
  9. Install the shelter and seat.

All Done? Great! Go for a Ride!

_________________________________

Steve
'81 GL1100 Nekkid Bagger, Winnie


Last edited by Roady on Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

 

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Post Number:#2  PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:36 am
  

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Nice pics and info thanks this should help a lot of people

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Post Number:#3  PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:33 am
  

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OMG!!! Information overload!! :shock: :read: :read: :read:
Thanks, Roady!! This is a project I have been putting off because....well....it scares me! The pics and text here just made me commit to doing the job. MUCH better info than the service manual, imho. :clapping:

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Post Number:#4  PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:57 am
  

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Roady, Do you have anything on how to rework the electrical side of the cooling system? Melba's PO did a hack-job on it and the fan wont even run. Looks like a wire-splice grenade went of under there and I'm haing a heck of a time following the manuals diagram.

Thanx! :beg:

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Post Number:#5  PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:50 pm
  

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Nice write up, Roady. Now I have a stupid question. Do you have to remove the timing belts to replace the water pump? I've got to replace the belts as well, but I don't want to have to pull the pulleys if I don't have too.

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Post Number:#6  PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:23 pm
  

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Montecman wrote:
Roady, Do you have anything on how to rework the electrical side of the cooling system? Melba's PO did a hack-job on it and the fan wont even run. Looks like a wire-splice grenade went of under there and I'm haing a heck of a time following the manuals diagram.


First off, you can get a very LARGE wiring diagram from Sidecar Bob's thread over at Naked GoldWings. It's much easier on the eyes.

You need to do some investigating to figure out why that fan won't come on. Run jumpers from the battery directly to the fan to make sure it works. Then trace the wires that connect to the fan. The hot one goes to the fuse block. The ground goes through the fan switch (front & center, top of block). When the temp goes up that switch closes and completes the circuit. The last part of the puzzle is that switch. They are notorious for going bad. Follow the Haynes procedure in the writeup to test that one.

I suggest you create a new thread here so that everyone can chime in and coach you through this.

plskthompson1 wrote:
Nice write up, Roady. Now I have a stupid question. Do you have to remove the timing belts to replace the water pump? I've got to replace the belts as well, but I don't want to have to pull the pulleys if I don't have too.


Nice to see you over here, Thompson. The only stupid question is the one that does not get asked.

You may have to take the belts off to get access to all of those bolts on the tranny cover. I'm not sure. You see, I'm not a real mechanic ... I just act like one on the internet. You most certainly do not have to remove the pulleys. Those would only need to come off if you found leaks from the front cam seals or if you needed to pull the heads.

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Good to hear. I already have the belts and water pump to replace on Phoenix, just have to get the gasket set from Crescent Moon now.

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The belts do not need to come off but working on the front cover getting it off and the block cleaned is easier done with the belt covers off. Every little bit of room and visibility gained working the front cover is a plus.
If you do everything at the same time, pull the radiator. It makes the job much easier.

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I fully plan to do it all at once. I already have the belts and pump, I just need the gaskets now.

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I am waiting on my new pump still and already have the radiator off. My radiator leaks so I went by our local radiator shop and they're closed and gone, asking around I found out the EPA slapped some stiff requirements on radiator shops and most of them have closed so I had to go for a used radiator from ebay. Still waiting on that also.

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I got lucky, the dealer, and yes I meant DEALER this time, had one in stock and for less than what I could find one for anywhere after shipping.

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People ask us why we ride a motorcycle. For those who have experienced the joy, no explanation is necessary; for those who have not, no explanation is possible.


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Post Number:#12  PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:33 am
  

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WOW that was great!!! very good detail with all the props.. with kind of info we can keep these goldwings running for ever ( if the parts are available).. Thanks for the great reminder!!!

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Post Number:#13  PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:56 am
  

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Great info. Wish I had it last year when I did my water pump. Dwight

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Ordered Napa belts... where is the generator bolt and timing marks caps located???? I am guessing the generator bolt is on the backside of the motor and the timing marks are on the left side of the block???

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You'll find those here:

Image

That pic is from the Valve Adjustment writeup.

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Steve
'81 GL1100 Nekkid Bagger, Winnie


 
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